Andrew Rondeau: Today I am interviewing The Marketing Guru, Harry Beckwith. Harry, how are you?

Harry Beckwith: Very good for someone who recently discovered that his golf game will never improve.

But I am blessed by an extraordinary wife and interesting and decent children--six of them, no two alike.

Andrew Rondeau: Harry, you have had a fantastic Managerial career. Tell me about your own career.

Harry Beckwith: I chose law for the wrong reasons.  I thought it meant arguing cases; instead, it meant settling them.  And I actually hate rules, which makes my choice of that career bizarre, don't you think?

But trial law's appeal was that it is Competitive Communication.  A trial attorney takes a complex set of facts about a client, develops a position, assembles the key evidence, and presents the client's story in a way that people buy.  That's what marketers do, too, so the change was logical.  The transition was rocky at first, however, because I overestimated the role of logic and underestimated the role of emotion.  I assumed human beings constantly perform cost-benefits analyses before they choose something.  Some people try to, but even the most resolute fail prey to seemingly illogical influences.  Understanding those is a key to marketing effectively.

I changed careers and cities, leaving Portland, Oregon for Minneapolis without a job offer or a place to live, and the moving van just four days behind us as we trekked across America.  It was a great lesson in the value of risk-taking.

I started as a copywriter, quickly became a creative director, and a few years later realized that I had exhausted that agency's capacity to teach me anything more.  When you're learning entirely on your own, it's time to go out on your own, and I did that.  No clients, no office, no sense at all perhaps.  But thank heavens for that: lesson two on the value of risk-taking.

After a few years, I looked at my clients and realized none of them made anything. They offered services.  I looked for books about marketing services as opposed to products, but couldn't find any that answered three-fourths of my questions.  So I wrote my first book, Selling the Invisible, a field guide to marketing a service, for a simple reason:  I wanted to read it.

The book exploded.  Three consecutive years on the Business Week best-seller lists, 23 translations, and the phone calls coming from places I'd only heard of on the Travel Channel.  

The book proved to be my best marketing tool, but there's little competition for that title.  I've spent about $600 a year on marketing, but in all but three years I spent nothing.

Andrew Rondeau: You have invested an incredible amount of time, money and energy into your own personal development journey. Who have been your most influential teachers and why?

Harry Beckwith: My Shakespeare professor, Ron Rebholz, who demonstrated for me the power and influence of passion for your work and for learning.

My father, for his decency.

My mother, for her resilience.

My wife, for the same quality; she's a twelve-year cancer survivor.

Kurt Vonnegutt Jr., who taught me the power of words and clarity.

Steve Prefontaine, who never quit.

Andrew Rondeau: Harry, how important has goal setting been to your overall success?

Harry Beckwith: The only goal I ever set was to try to achieve mastery of my subject.  Total mastery is impossible, plus if I achieved that I no longer would feel fulfilled because I wasn't learning, and I'd have to quit.  I love marketing, especially trying to understand behavior and human thinking.  Whatever I achieved was the by-product of my attempt at mastery, and not the goal itself.

I didn't set a goal of writing a book, much less a best seller, or working with a specific client.  That second strategy certainly might have worked, but I've also had desires to fulfil outside my career--emotional, physical, spiritual and others.

So if this is not clear, perhaps I might have achieved more my setting more goals, but the other goals seemed more important.  And they still do.  

Andrew Rondeau: What motivates you to do the work that you do?

Harry Beckwith: My fascination with human behavior and the influence of words, images, and appeals to their wants and needs.  Humans are fascinating.

Andrew Rondeau: What attributes do you believe make a successful leader?

Harry Beckwith: Integrity, authenticity, energy, passion, and a willingness to share the credit and shoulder the blame.

Andrew Rondeau: How is Leadership different from when you started out in business?

Harry Beckwith: It's more in question, perhaps, in the wake of Enron.  Leadership also is different because the rank-and-file are far less willing to work to their rank and stand in file.  The younger employees are more independent and confident; they have peers who went out and made millions right out of college.  Those of us in Generation W didn't have that model; our heroes went dutifully to work, worked hard, moved up the ranks, and retired, often in the same place they began.  So leaders are different because the followers have changed.

Andrew Rondeau: You have a new book, You, Inc.: The Art of Selling Yourself. Can you tell me more about the book?

Harry Beckwith: It's red, not too heavy, and the least enthusiastic reviewer on Amazon gave it four stars.  And one reviewer called it "unbelievable," which made my discovery about my future in golf less painful.

Andrew Rondeau: What feedback have you received from clients about your books?

Harry Beckwith: A lot of clients are very pleased that their advisor has written a book-any book.  They respond stronger, of course, if you sell hundreds of thousands of copies and get invited to dozens of countries to share their wisdom.  But I also suspect there are a few clients who hear of my globetrotting-maybe read a review from a New Delhi newspaper and how I created a stir in India--and they think, "Harry? Him?"  

By now, however, I think the clients are used to it.  This is my fourth book in ten years; the novelty to my clients left years ago. 

Andrew Rondeau: If you could recommend one book that all aspiring leaders should read, what would it be?

Harry Beckwith: The Headmaster by John McPhee. But I think aspiring readers should read dozens of books; you cannot figure life out just by looking through your own eyes.  No one sees that well.

Andrew Rondeau: How do you see Leadership changing over the next 5 years?

Harry Beckwith: Subtly in business, in an ongoing adaptation to the new generation of workers.

In political leadership, the changes may be more apparent, as the crises of the last decade seem to become more vivid: global warming, the Mideast, aging and health care.  The next election may demonstrate that the voters in both parties do not want politics as usual.  Already you see signals of this with Michael Bloomberg declaring himself an independent, with some confidence that's more desirable than the Democrat or Republican.  And I think we will see more leaders of color, leading people of all colors.

Andrew Rondeau: If you could give my readers one piece of advice, what would it be?

Harry Beckwith: When you come to a fork in the road, don't take the path of least resistance, the road without obstacles.  Take the other road--the one that runs along the cliff, the one without guard rails.  The sheer exhilaration of the ride and the pride you feel just to finish will reward and nurture you, and encourage you take more risks.

Andrew Rondeau: Thank your very much, Harry. I appreciate you taking the time to do this interview.

Harry Beckwith: It’s been a pleasure.